Quiz #2
Pols 312: Early Western Thought
Dr. Losco
9/26/2006
Fall Semester 2006


1.    Socrates defines the definition of justice as “the advantage of the stronger” or the will of the stronger however, he defines the ultimate view of justice as staying out of other’s business by minding your own business. Socrates believes that if everyone minds their own business it will create harmony within the city. Socrates expresses this view of a harmonious city through his comparison of the city and the soul. There are three cities: simple, luxurious, and good. The simple city meets all of our basic needs, while the luxurious city requires the addition of classes because someone is needed to protect the luxuries, and the good city is filled with philosopher kings who search for wisdom and ideas like beauty, justice, and the good. Out of these cities, Socrates looks at the good city. He says there are three classes in the good city: rulers, guardians, and artisans. He compares this city to the soul, which also has three classes reason, spirited, and desirous. He states that the guardian class has wisdom and courage, moderation extends to all and that justice is to be left to each class minding his/her own business. Socrates reason for saying justice in the soul and in the city should be left to one’s own business is that if each was interfering with the other harmony could not be achieved, but if all are only concerned with themselves, then harmony will occur, and this can be achieved just as easily in the city as in the soul.

3.    The three great waves that Socrates talks about that are needed to save the luxurious city are: total equality of men and women, community of wives and children, and philosopher kings. In the first wave Socrates believes men and women are equal in all ways and in everything they do. He believes they should shower together, be trained together, etc. without eroticism in order to create a sense of equals. In the second wave, Socrates believes a community of wives and children should be established in which the whole society is a parent. A group of the healthiest and wisest would be set aside and taken somewhere to have children. These children, would then be the children of the whole community. The birth mother and birth father would not be married, they would simply be fulfilling a community duty by creating a child. In the third wave, philosophers would be kings. Political power and philosophy would coincide. Socrates believes this wave would be the most daring, because philosophers are thought to be the lowest in real society. They don’t think like anyone else in society and they deal with ideas and forms, while the norm of society is to deal with appearances and things we can touch.

Section II:

Hall’s view of the Republic is that it is a real idea that Socrates contemplated. This belief is due to the fact that Hall feels we should read the text in light of historic and social factors and look beyond the text for answers. For example, Hall sees the Republic as being an actual possibility because they created a Republic in Sparta and thus because a republic is possible so is the thought of a philosopher being a king. Bloom on the other hand feels that when reading the Republic, we must take the text at its word. He adds that it is a dialogue and a drama and must be read as a dialogue and a drama, which Hall neglected to do, resulted in his misinterpretation. He feels that Socrates was giving Glaucon the example of the Republic to show the very limits of a perfect Republic. When referring the philosopher king, Bloom states that nowhere in the text does it talk about the philosopher’s life being about ruling or that ruling contributes to philosophizing.
    Although both authors have legitimate views with very persuasive points, I tend to agree more with Bloom. I feel that Bloom has won his case with the sole speech about reading the text as it is. I feel that it is important to not let personal beliefs and convictions come into play when reading a text like the Republic for reasons such as, it wasn’t written in our time period, it was written about a man who had the capacity to think outside the box more so then most people today, and if personal beliefs and convictions were allowed into the reading, nobody would have an agreeable opinion about what Socrates is trying to say.

Professor Comments: Dr. Losco crossed out my first line in answer number one; Socrates defines the definition of justice as "the advantage of the stronger." He also wrote beside that paragraph, "How viable is this approach for city? for soul?" At the top of the paper he wrote the grade for my quiz, giving me a 4/5.

Questions for the Quiz

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Rationale